PARIS, FRANCE — Chef Tomy Gousset is a French chef of Cambodian heritage who has accumulated top awards over the years.

This started with his first restaurant Tomy & Co in Paris, which he opened in 2016, obtaining in 2019 a prestigious Michelin star. Criteria for such recognition include the mastery of cooking techniques as well as the personality of the chef as expressed through his restaurant’s cuisine.

In 2016, Gousset had obtained the Tremplin award of the magazine “Le Chef,” and in 2017, the Lebey award for the best first course.

Then in 2019, his second restaurant Hugo & Co received the Bistro of the Year award. That same year, he opened his third restaurant, Marso & Co.  

As Gousset explained during an interview in Paris, his journey has not been without difficulty.

Ky Soklim: First, thank you for taking the time for this interview. You now have three restaurants in Paris serving French cuisine. But before going any further, would you say a few words about yourself. When did your parents come to France?  

Tomy Gousset: First, let me say that I am really glad to meet you. It is very important for me to greet a media from Cambodia. This is also a matter of passing on, speaking a little of our life here in Paris, and to encourage, to transmit. For me, transmission is very important.

So, I am Tomy Gousset, I’m 45 years old. I was born in France. My parents arrived in France in 1975, just before the Khmer Rouge [seized control of Cambodia].

In fact, I grew up in France but in a culture that was always 100-percent Cambodian. I ate Asian food throughout my whole youth. Therefore, this culture, my origins are really embedded in me. This of course can be seen through my skin color, my face. I’m French of course, but half French, half Cambodian, which is very important to me.      

So indeed, I have opened three gastronomic restaurants [in Paris], the first one being in the 7th arrondissement [administrative district] and having a Michelin star since 2019. A Michelin star is truly the consecration of haute cuisine française [the height of French cuisine]. There is one star, two stars and three stars. It’s really high end. We got it in 2019. I believe that I am, at least in France, the only chef of Cambodian background to have a Michelin star.

So this is important to me. This is not only for me, for my pride. It’s actually also to show those younger among us in the [Cambodian] community and country that we can reach a high level. Yes, we are all able to do this. 

Then I opened a second restaurant, Hugo & Co, in the 5th arrondissement seven years ago. It is more a French-bistro style restaurant of Asian inspiration, as I also do this a great deal of course.  And I opened a third restaurant in the 13th arrondissement, Marso & Co, a French bistro, five years ago. 

Ky Soklim: What prompted you to study French rather than Cambodian gastronomy?

Tomy Gousset: My culture of course. I have a double culture: French culture and education, and Cambodian culture. It was important for me to show that, as French Cambodian, I could do as well as any other French chef. And also wishing to integrate—I chose gastronomy, it was not even a passion, I just chose this by chance—along with the will to succeed.    

This was part of me because I had always had those problems of identity. In fact, when I was young, I was always asking myself why we were not going a lot on vacation, why others were going skiing and to the beach. I had lots of questions.  

My parents worked hard; I have a great deal of respect for my parents. So, why did I choose gastronomy? It’s really by accident. In fact, it was simply this will to show, to strive to do better, to do more, to prove that one can succeed. It was in fact this determination to do this.   

And gastronomy came by accident, that is, it was not intentional.

Ky Soklim: Meaning that you did not study French gastronomy at school?  

Tomy Gousset: It was at 24 years old. Usually in France, we have training programs. This starts at 14, 15 or 16 years old. I started late because I was asking myself many questions as to my identity, my training. I was a bit lost.

Then I saw a television program on a school in Paris, the [culinary art and hospitality school] Ecole Ferrendis, a very well-known school. At the time, cuisine was not really fashionable yet…it was 20 years ago. So, I embarked on this. And progressively, I learned to love it. But I did not know the French products—it was not my culture. 

Ky Soklim: At first, was it difficult?

Tomy Gousset: It was very difficult.

Ky Soklim: Like, for example, selecting lettuce?

Tomy Gousset: Exactly. And asparagus, white asparagus, Jerusalem artichokes, turnips, all types of mushrooms. I did not know all this. So, it was not easy. Of course, there was this determination to believe, I was doing this and wanted to go all the way. And progressively, I learned. And now that I’ve been doing this work for 20 years, I have figured out why I was doing it. I now understand.

It’s important for me to talk about the will to surpass oneself. Moreover, since I was a child from immigration, I wanted to integrate myself in France. Through hard work because I believe that it’s only hard work that provides us the opportunity to succeed. So, I went about doing this and soon realized that this was a trade in which I could express myself, be creative and share with people.   

Ky Soklim: Creative because a chef is creative in his kitchen.  

Tomy Gousset: At least when it comes to gastronomy, one must be creative. That is, one must very much look into the recipes, at times not be afraid of mixing cultures, things like that. We have to be free in the way we work.

In our case, we really create a cuisine. When one starts to be gastronomic, one must definitely pay attention to plating, how to display, paying attention to the colors. We pay attention to all these things. In fact, this is what appealed to me in gastronomy.

It is really a coincidence, and I discovered this only progressively as years went by as this did not happen right away…. It really was by accident. At first, it was the willingness to surpass myself in a field that is after all very conservative. There are many pure-bred French people. At the time, there were not many, or at least I had never met a person of Cambodian heritage like me, or of Laotian or Vietnamese heritage. There were very few [in this field].  

But I wanted to believe. I was asking myself whether it was possible to succeed.

Ky Soklim: So, when did you decide to open restaurants and specialize in French cuisine. What prompted you to do this, to dare do this?  

Tomy Gousset: Actually, I did not travel a great deal. I grew up in France and, at one point, I felt the need to go abroad. So, I went to work in New York City for a French chef with three Michelin stars. It turned out to be very hard. When I returned to France two years later, I started looking for work. I was looking for a chef position. But this proved difficult because, in fact, no one wanted to give me a chance.

So, I asked myself whether this was because of the color of my skin, my origins. I thought this could not be. 

Ky Soklim: So, it was difficult to find a position.

Tomy Gousset: It turned out very difficult. And yet, there was someone who trusted me. So, I managed to work for four years at the restaurant Pirouette [in Paris]. This worked very well. This is actually [at that restaurant] that I became known.

I had always worked for 3-star restaurants. Therefore, I knew how to do things with precision, how to choose quality produce and products… After 10 years, I had learned…and understood that there was no other solution for me than to open my own restaurant.   

Because it was also a matter of my background…Even though I was a very good chef, some were a bit concerned, wondering what this meant being a French Cambodian, whether I could do good cuisine. And yet, I had solid experience.

So, I had no other choice than to open my own restaurant. I found a partner…He trusted me. He still works with me today. He is now a friend. So, I opened my restaurant [Tomy & Co]. And 9 years later, it’s working well. It’s always full.      

Ky Soklim: How was it at first? Was it difficult to attract customers? Or did the customers from the restaurant where you had previously been followed you to your new one?   

Tomy Gousset: We got customers from the restaurant where I had worked as a chef. And we got a lot of people, a lot of press coverage. Restaurants and cuisine were really in fashion at the time. Many people were coming, including 3-star chefs. I kind of became in fashion when I opened. It went very fast and we immediately were full.  

From the first day, the restaurant was full both for lunch and dinner. I worked very hard and I already had experience. Still, people gave me a chance. They believed in us. But I also worked hard. It is due to my work that they came. And I would greet them; I am a person who likes to kindly greet people. But it is my work, my cuisine that was recognized rather than my personality. So, people came.

Ky Soklim: People who knew you from the restaurant where you had previously worked?  

Tomy Gousset: Customers from the past as well as many new ones. In Paris, when we open a restaurant in a good part of town, right away there are journalists who are interested. So that creates a bit of a buzz. They like to create a buzz in Paris because it is the capital of gastronomy. So, when there is a good chef, a good restaurant that opens, they are interested. And if it’s a really good place, it will always work.    

For us, this is what happened. It worked very well for a long time. Then we got a Michelin star.

Already, I had other ideas…I’ve always asked myself questions, always wanting to do more…and this was not just out of passion for cuisine. It was simply that me, as a French of Cambodian heritage, I felt that I could do more than others…So we opened another restaurant and it worked well. 

Ky Soklim: This was before COVID-19?

Tomy Gousset: It was before COVID-19. The two restaurants…worked very well. It was great. During the epidemic, it was a bit difficult. After COVID-19, it improved. But during the epidemic, I was the first chef with a Michelin star in Paris to offer take-away food. We did a lot of take-aways. This worked very well. Thanks to this, we managed to make it. The customers were very nice and thanked us. Many customers came to pick up baskets.

Ky Soklim:  French chefs have the reputation of being famous, of being excellent. As a French chef with a Cambodian heritage, was it difficult for you to fit in, to integrate the profession and compete with the French chefs?    

Tomy Gousset: This is a very good question. Honestly, for me, it’s not easy because to be at the same level as someone like me, it takes three restaurants. That is… I always thought that, with the color of my skin in France, one must work three times more than others. This is really my way of thinking. Which is why… before I took on this trade, I have always looked for models.

Are there Cambodians who have shown the way, who are not afraid, who are discreet, who succeeded in something. And there are. We remain hidden, we remain discreet. It’s our culture. Because when we arrived here, we had to: this is not our home, it’s theirs. As my parents always said. It’s normal, and they are right. This is not our home, we must not show off even if we make money, we must be discreet.

People are jealous. And so, it was difficult for me to find success stories. This is why I did all this, worked three times harder. So, to answer your question, yes, for me it is difficult to fit in. Many have accepted me—there are some who are really nice of course. But there are those who are a little jealous. They are a little jealous because would someone like us do better than French people.     

Ky Soklim: And your cuisine, the dishes you serve, this is of the highest quality, isn’t it? 

Tomy Gousset: Exactly. That is, quality dishes, high end. Since it was recently the winter season, we had black truffles, lots of truffles. Now that it is spring, we will serve asparagus. And the liberty I get due to my two cultures is to be able to go beyond too classical recipes. But I describe my cuisine as not too classic and not too creative. It’s truly a cuisine. One can do this style of cuisine in United States, Bangkok, Phnom Penh, in South America or Spain, and it will work. It’s a cuisine based on products. So, by now, I have learned to know a product. And even if I did not know at first, now I know products well.    

Ky Soklim:  Today, you are excellent in French dishes. Would you, one day, include Cambodian dishes in your three restaurants?  

Tomy Gousset: I would like to. Of course this is something I would like to do. First, I had to acquire, how could I put it, I had to obtain legitimacy as a chef. Because each time I talk to people who don’t know me, when I say that I have restaurants, everyone, in 100 percent of the cases, will think that these are Asian-food restaurants.

This does not make me ashamed because I have a great deal of respect, I love eating in Asian restaurants. But the question is why would one think that we cannot have a French restaurant. Which is why it’s impossible at this point. One day, definitely, I will do so. Because, of course, I love Cambodian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai cuisine. I am very open-minded. I love Asian cuisine. It is no doubt my favorite cuisine.

Ky Soklim: Have you thought of, maybe one day, opening a restaurant of French cuisine in Cambodia? 

Tomy Gousset: Yes. Frankly, this would make me very happy. Maybe it would be a dream-come-true to do this. I have had some opportunities because we often set up collaborations, work with a chef in Cambodia. However, over the last nine years or so, I had to set up and make my restaurants function well. This was my priority. Today, I have finished paying credit here [in Paris].

It’s important. So, we have a bit more freedom. This usually means that, if we have managed for nine years, we have done good work. This was my priority that, in France, things would go well. Afterwards, I will of course try to expand. And of course, some people have contacted me to hold events, to do things [in Cambodia]. I would be very happy to do so, of course. At the moment, I don’t have anything planned as, as I said, my priority was to stabilize my restaurants in France. Now that it is going well, that people know me, I believe that I have more legitimacy to potentially open something in Cambodia or elsewhere.       

Ky Soklim: What are the criteria for being a good chef?

Tomy Gousset: Well, I don’t really have an answer. In my case… for a start, it is very important to know how to work as a team. For me, it’s a priority, I cannot work alone. This is why today, in my three restaurants, we are around 27 employees, which is actually many. But I like this. I like to work as a team. It’s so important. One must also have unifying skills.

That is, I always want to set an example, it’s always me who makes the recipes of the three restaurants, and I always want to show that I can do better than the others. Meaning that I will work—and I work a lot—to always show my teams the sample dish, and how to make it. This is very important to me. Communication is very important. Communication: I spend a lot of time speaking to my teams, to reassure also because this is not an easy trade.

We close on Saturday and Sunday, which is good. And we work with breaks in the day. In the morning, we work from 8:30 am to 3:30 pm, and in the evening from 5:30 pm to 11:00 pm.             

We have to communicate a lot, which is very important. I believe in communication. To bring people together. I think that I am a business manager who takes care of his teams, meaning who is nice to them. These are simple things. I’m not the best technician, I’m not the best… On the other hand, what is important to me, what I always tell my teams is that, if I win, everyone wins. All my teams will win. This is really my vision, at least as chef de cuisine [head chef] and entrepreneur: to make everyone reach high levels. If I win, everyone wins.

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Note: A Michelin star is awarded to restaurants offering outstanding cooking, taking into account: the quality of the ingredients, the harmony of flavors, the mastery of techniques, the personality of the chef as expressed through his/her cuisine, and consistency both across the entire menu and over time.

Conducted in French by ThmeyThmey Digital Media, the interview was translated into English by Michelle Vachon for Cambodianess.